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Better late than never
#18
Quote:while you seem to be arguing from a position that says that only one form of AI can possibly exist and it must be hostile to humans - but you aren't actually offering evidence to support your position. 

It's not that I saw that only one type of AI would emerge, more like our of the many kinds of minds which might spontaneously appear, there are many that would not care for us in the slightest. The hypothetical paper-clip maximiser, for example, that old chestnut about the computer that uses its genius mind to turn the whole planet into paper clips, because that's what it cares most about doing.

That said, an AI designed to think like a human is a very different beast, a bit like if the first AI machines were uploads of human beings. The last time I checked the OA backstory, sentient AI just appeared by accident, and no one even knew they were self-aware up until the Great Expulsion. Humanity got caught with its pants down, so to speak. But from what you're saying, we might actually have some control over how the first AI actually turns out, which isn't something I'd even considered.

Quote:OTOH if your response is just to repeat your basic position or make firmly worded declarative statements that AI just must be hostile because that's the way the universe works or it will be non-human and non-human = hostile or the like - then we're really not having a discussion. Not to say you aren't entitled to your opinion, but it can be very annoying to take the time and effort to put together a whole response with arguments and supporting points and possibly references - and have it all essentially dismissed out of hand.

When I repeat my basic position, that's because it's not an argument for me, it's how I personally feel about the setting - which is quite creeped out (in a good way). When I came out with things like "well, the AI would never be that nice", it's a reflection of how wrong I think things could go in real life, not a criticism of the setting.

I didn't know we were having a debate, I thought I was explaining why I felt the way I did and that no one else understood why. I wasn't expecting such huge and detailed responses, more like something along the lines of "oh, that's interesting, thanks for sharing". My intention isn't to frustrate anyone or waste their time on needless explanations, just point out why someone might feel a sense of existential horror at the idea of living in a universe dominated by brains the size of entire star systems.

I see a lot of danger in a scenario where an AI emerges in the wild with no oversight from its creators, then begins influencing society for its own goals. A universe where the AI really did have our best interests at heart would be a great place to live. But even then, the culture shock for a modern day person getting used to being at the bottom of the food chain would be something awful. We're used to thinking of being at the botton of a hierarchy as equal to being victimised, or at least that's how I'm used to seeing it. We're used to thinking of being at the botton of a hierarchy as equal to being victimised, or at least that's how I'm used to seeing it.

Quote:Re intelligence coming in many forms - That's a base assumption of OA, although for various editorial reasons it doesn't get talked up as much as the more human like stuff. That said, sharks and crocodiles are only two forms of life on the planet. There are lots and lots of animals that are not remorseless killers and that show affection and playfulness and such, even if they don't do it exactly the way we do. For that matter, humans have a demonstrated track record of being pretty remorseless killers our own selves.

Very true. Let's just hope the first AI thinks like an affectionate mammal and not like, say, the AI overseer of a paperclip factory! But if we're alert and manage the process carefully, then hopefully that won't happen.

Quote:Self-interest can actually be a strong motivator for getting along with others, because a group can do more than an individual or a group that likes or admires teh individual are inclined to help them rather than harm them. AIs might have purely logical motivations for appearing to be quite charming and friendly even if they don't necessarily 'feel' anything about it one way or the other. You can't really argue that they would find that boring or tedious and choose not to do it, because then you are ascribing human-like emotions to them - and you already said they might not have them. You can't have it both ways or only have them have negative emotions that support your thesis[Image: tongue.gif]

Don't we have an article about a poorly-designed AI that lacked a self-preservation instinct? The Perpetua Project, I think. Basically the AI just gave up and died when it believed that it had reached its goal. What I was trying to say (poorly) is that early AI might lack any motivators at all, or if they did have motivators they might be something extremely strange and possibly harmful. Combine that with genius intellect and things could get hairy for sub-singularity beings.

Anyway, I'll make more of an effort to listen properly in future rather than feeling like I have to justify everything I say. I seem to have misunderstood the purpose of your query into why I found the setting so unnerving. Like an early AI, I too need to learn appropriate behaviour!
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Messages In This Thread
Better late than never - by extherian - 03-19-2018, 10:06 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Rynn - 03-19-2018, 11:46 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-20-2018, 02:52 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-20-2018, 05:46 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Rynn - 03-20-2018, 06:02 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-20-2018, 02:07 PM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-20-2018, 06:40 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Crossroads - 03-20-2018, 07:45 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-20-2018, 07:15 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Vaktus - 03-21-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Rynn - 03-21-2018, 04:32 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-21-2018, 04:58 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Tengu459 - 03-21-2018, 04:30 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-21-2018, 05:09 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-21-2018, 07:17 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-21-2018, 08:53 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Crossroads - 03-21-2018, 08:56 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-21-2018, 09:49 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-21-2018, 12:56 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Tengu459 - 03-21-2018, 10:40 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-21-2018, 10:50 AM
RE: Better late than never - by QwertyYerty - 03-21-2018, 12:24 PM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-21-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Tengu459 - 03-22-2018, 08:14 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-22-2018, 09:10 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Tengu459 - 03-22-2018, 11:09 AM
RE: Better late than never - by JohnnyYesterday - 03-23-2018, 06:20 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-23-2018, 01:08 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Alphadon - 03-24-2018, 04:20 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Tengu459 - 03-24-2018, 07:08 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Alphadon - 03-24-2018, 07:38 PM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-24-2018, 11:05 PM
RE: Better late than never - by selden - 03-25-2018, 12:29 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-25-2018, 12:41 AM
RE: Better late than never - by selden - 03-25-2018, 12:45 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Alphadon - 03-25-2018, 04:56 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Rynn - 03-25-2018, 05:13 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-25-2018, 05:50 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Rynn - 03-25-2018, 05:58 AM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-25-2018, 06:45 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Drashner1 - 03-25-2018, 07:50 AM
RE: Better late than never - by Alphadon - 03-25-2018, 05:27 PM
RE: Better late than never - by extherian - 03-25-2018, 08:51 PM

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