Greeting and Quick Question on Baryos

[SeveralCakes]

Hi! I'm SeveralCakes. Been a fan of Orion's Arm for about a year. An aspiring science fiction author, about to embark on "Ginger Beer" with friends. Likes puns.  

I have a question for more physics-inclined people than I. What would a baseline human standing on the surface of Baryos (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4609ca397f2c4) see when he/she looks up at the sky? Can baseline humans even stand on Baryos' surface (I'm not sure I'm following whether or not the neutrino star would kill them).

[stevebowers]

Baryos is one of the most speculative articles in OA. As it is a product of alien technology one might expect it to be weird, but this is particularly off the scale. No-one has ever detected a 'cold neutrino', let alone detected a star made of them. But I see no reason why this should be impossible. The gravity field would be similar to that surrounding a black hole of similar mass, but the gravity decreases towards the centre instead of increasing exponentially. So there should be a small amount of gravitational lensing surrounding the planet as seen from space, but there wouldn't be much distortion at the surface. The most likely visual effect would be that the horizon would be raised higher than on Earth, so that you would appear to be in a bowl with the stars gathered together over your head.

Anders indicates that a baseline human could stand on the surface of the planet - except it is a waterworld, so you'd need to be in a boat. The atmosphere of Baryos might be a risky place to stand - infalling meteoric dust would burn up brightly, illuminating the sky constantly with bolide-like intensity. But this wouldn't be too dangerous, until larger meteorites happen to fall nearby. Anything much larger than a pea would make a shock wave like the Chelyabinsk meteor. I'd stay underwater If I was there.

If this object was intended to be a prison then it has failed - there seems to be no trace of what was imprisoned there, but it may still lurk nearby. The escape velocity of 10000km/s is high, but not impossibly so- advanced propulsion systems could lift a fugitive from the surface. The greatest challenge would be to manufacture a craft capable of such speeds on a waterworld; mining and smelting materials would be tricky, so you'd have to use sophisticated fabrication tech.

[Drashner1]

Hi There - Welcome to OA!

As Steve says, a neutrino star is one of the most speculative ideas in OA. For my part, I'm rather iffy about the idea and wonder if we should either look to something else to produce this effect (a mass of dark matter perhaps) or retcon it out of the setting. I'd very much like to see the source material Anders was working from when he thought up the idea.

However, since we have it here for now...

After thinking about it today, I have to wonder if it would be possible for a Terragen biont (or even vecs or non-sophont machines) to reach the surface of Baryos alive/functioning.

I say this because I'm remembering back to an article I read many years ago about supernovae and how they operate. In particular, the article talked about the 'neutrino flash' that is produced during the explosion and that it involves the creation of so many neutrinos that it would kill a human being who was in the vicinity all by itself - not because supernova neutrinos are different or any more reactive than any other kind - but because so many would be produced that, even with the tiny chance of interaction with normal matter that neutrinos have, the sheer number interactions would produce enough secondary radiation to kill a human.

Taking this back to Baryos - 3 solar masses of neutrinos all in one comparatively compact place seems like it might hit particle densities matching or exceeding those associated with a supernova - which could mean that it would be deadly for a biont to approach the planet, and possibly disruptive or destructive to machinery as well. As I say, I'm not sure about this - but perhaps something the group should discuss.

My 2c worth and once again - Welcome to OA

Todd

[stevebowers]

I think that 'hot' neutrinos are more dangerous than cold ones, because they are moving so fast- almost at the speed of light. So cold neutrinos should be safer.

But if we replace them with dark matter then we might have to choose the type of dark matter we prefer. This is still an open question.

[JohnnyYesterday]

Couldn't black angel technology grab and slow neutrinos down?

[Rynn]

As Steve says, a neutrino star is one of the most speculative ideas in OA. For my part, I'm rather iffy about the idea and wonder if we should either look to something else to produce this effect (a mass of dark matter perhaps) or retcon it out of the setting. I'd very much like to see the source material Anders was working from when he thought up the idea.

I found this paper from the 90s that Anders may have been working from:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...via%3Dihub

It calculates a theoretical neutrino star a few light days in diameter that masses several solar masses. However it is quite out of date as it makes the assumption of neutrino mass as 17KeV, more recent work has narrowed down the combined masses of all types of neutrinos as less than 0.3eV.
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10....7208/full/

That's a 60,000x overestimation. My instinct is that if you were to run the calculations again it would require vastly more than 3-6 solar masses to make a stable neutrino star. Doing some skim reading on it it seems like it's not a well favoured idea at the moment, instead stable neutrino clouds pop up in the literature as a theory of the high mass of the center of the galaxy (possibly instead of a supermassive black hole).

[Drashner1]

Couldn't black angel technology grab and slow neutrinos down?

Black Angels play games with gravity, which does effect neutrinos - so yes, in principle, Halo technology could slow down neutrinos - but doing so would probably require specialized systems designed to work with neutrinos - given that black angels primarily on the macroscopic or maybe molecular level. Also, the sheer number of neutrinos required would seem likely to take a very long time to collect. Plus the issues with detecting them so that they can be 'collected'.

Todd